wasnt this the problem nocnoc was having last night, come to think of it and yourself Mani ?

meh i always used IE coz i never thought there was a problem with it... but now! bah i dunno i will probably stay with it anyway :/

I use Mozilla Firefox jammin, its a much better/safer alternative.

lol fel, you and I always seem to post at the exact same time

Ah i will give it a try maybe, just look for the download now

No felon, IE does not get used on this PC (Unless the mrs lies)

Never had a problem with IE, fook using fringe browsers. 95% of websites are designed to be viewed in IE primarily and rightly so, it has 95% market share. And I CBA to fight a micro revolution at the cost of my browsing ease.

Considering the sheer number of IE installations, it's not surprising how often holes are discovered. If any of the other browser were as popular it'd be the same.

Good point, but when people are not aware of clicking unsafe links in irc for example Mozilla can be a blessing.

Would be a fair point if the people who are prone to noobing it up by clicking on dangerous links weren't the type of people to know nothing of alternative browsers.

What makes fringe browsers almost pointless in the scheme of such safety issues is that the majority of people who use them are experienced and knowledgeable of computing.

By the time a user has naturally stepped into the realm of alternative browsers and is more aware of security issues they are equipped through experience to use an IE engine based browser safely.

I disagree, can't be arsed to argue now, it's saturday night. So I will simply say 'you're wrong cause u suck cock'

James your imaginative and well constructed reply never fails to astound me

Salv m8, your'e wrong, IE is piss poor. If MS were bothered about it we'd be on IE9 by now, been stuck on wholly IE6 for several years now though haven't we. And MS have said publicly that there will NOT be another version of IE still the next version of windows. (2006?)

You will not find many experienced web developers using IE for anything other than testing. That's all it's good for.

Generally though, most of our managers share your'e opinion until we scan their machines for spyware while they watch.

And as for it being wide spread so thats why it gets attacked, thats a lame ass excuse for what are basically unbelievable design decisions, 'Active Scripting' and 'Active X' being the big ones to name a few.

Also consider that IE, STILL does not have full support for PNG images, has numerous CSS flaws and doesn't follow the W3C standards correctly in many areas and what you have is an absolute pile of shit.

As far as calling Firefox fringe, hmm, that would be a pretty big fringe, more like a mullet tbh. It's also MUCH easier to use than IE after 5 minutes of playing with it.

Get your head out of your arse and look at it objectively man! For the general web browsing that most normal users do, Firefox is absolutley perfect, I swapped my mother and it took her weeks to even notice, so it can't be much differnet to use can it. I noticed though, a lot less calls about spyware issues.

Sorry. But fringe browsers are pretty much completely irrelevant. They do not matter.

They're made by almost non-companies compared to Microsoft and that equates to no market penentration through lack of installed user base and capital.

95% of users use IE and I'd expect nearly 100% of those users know nothing of alternative browsers, or ever will.

Standards? Users don't give a monkeys;

"So this browser doesn't fit the standards? But all websites are made to display perfectly in it because it's the most popular? Ummm, how does this affect me?"

Rage your micro-rebelion. But these browsers are going no-where fast.

I've never had any complaints about IE and with Avant I've the newer features so I'm happy. And I don't have to think about the niggly little rendering differences. It's win-win.

I choose my browser with my logic hat on; The choice is between browsers which do the same thing but do somethings better and have some inconsistencies regarding page rendering...or...a browser which has 95% market penetration and is considered the standard. Add in the fact I've never had any issues with the latter and the choice is simple.

Stick with shit then.

Using a superior product is hardly a rebellion. I lose nothing and gain lots of things by using Firefox.

You're 95% is also out of date.

Actually you gain very little compared to some of the more feature rich IE engine browsers and lose the IE engine capability to render things as the author intended.

What would you rather have; A program gives results which are perfect but requires savvy operation to be safe, or one which gives results which are less than perfect but is idiot proof? The latter it seems. It's swings and roundabouts.

As the author intended?

If the author doesn't code to standards, I would sack them, and tbh they wouldn't get a job at any web dev agecy I've ever worked at either.

Therefore, if they code to standards, everything works perfectly on firefox, if you'd used firefox for any length of time you would know how well it renders pages. Significantly better than IE, e.g. Full png support (including transparency and alpha blending which MS promised to fix 3 years ago), Full CSS level 2 support etc, the list goes on.

Try it, I dare you.

The other things is your comparing Firefox to a downloaded IE addon which 99% users won't even know exists, the same as Firefox.

Final point..

By the time you've been in web development a few more years, your tune will have changed, trust me. You will be demanding standards compliance from your staff/colleagues, because quite frankly your'e customers will be demanding it from you. Your'e cusomters don't care that it looks fine in IE, they care that it looks shit on the MD's mac/Safari.

If your html is not standards compliant, forget ever working for a blue chip companies/ banks etc. it's as simply as that.

"better than IE". How daft. IE is the prevalent browser, as far as rendering goes what it puts out the reference ouput.

Websites are made for people to browse. When authoring a website you build it with IE in mind as the primary renderer. Because IE renders pages differently you must make sacrifices and you'll always choose for a page to look better in IE than in Firefox if you've got your head screwed on straight...because guess what...95% of people are going to see this page as IE presents it to them.

Regardless of the what cards Microsoft plays. You're playing by their rules and in business it pays to play along with them.

Standards compliance is a given. The fact is you have to contend with the differences in rendering, and tweak accordingly. A perfect coded design will not look the same in IE and Firefox, so you tweak it for IE.

Personally, I code for the Web, not for Microsoft.

ok lads each to there own, opinions make the world go around yadda yadda

Good discussion though.

hehehe, i have some sort of virus that makes ie not run properly so meh

Well I took mani's advise and downloaded firefox. I knew nothing of other browsers apart from Opera (which i thought was a pile of wank). However firefox really is the bee's knee's. It does much more than IE did, and i think its actually easier to use! The tabs are cool and! and! and! ah there is too much, anyway mani cheers dude, proper mate i tel'thi'!

The fact you dont need so many windows open with FF rocks, just using the tabs option is so much easier