This is why WoW is yet to be knocked off the top spot - why companies are going back to the old ways of huge penalties for dying and forcing large groups to even start questing is beyond me. WoW is all based around removing the boring parts of an mmorpg like the corpse runs and waiting around or losing armour that you've spent ages getting. Seems they still have a long way to go before WoW loses it's popularity.

Yeah, there's nothing worse than punishing gamers and Vanguard does it waaaay too frequently. A really frustrating gaming experience all round, but there might be some sadomasochists out there who like that sort of thing!

The Writer said "...bludgeoned to death by the ghost of a farmer within the first five minutes of gameplay, with experience he didn't even know he had gained going down the pipes to boot."
Well, how can this be when you dont even get a death penalty until level seven. Also the writer said that he was scolded for not being in character...He wouldnt have gotten this comment if he wasnt on the role play server. I run the game on an AMD 64 3000... a pretty weak cpu by many standards and I play this game on better than medium setting. It looks much better than the crappy screenies he posted and the game runs between 20 and 40 frames a second. Unless you've oplayed the game recently. (there was a huge patch this week) You can't speak for the actual state of the game. This artical is BS at best.

I have an x1800 GTO and the settings were on full.

When you die, the game says "you lost experience", regardless of level.

I played the game recently.

Case closed. Read other reviews, such as PC Zone's 45% if there is any further doubt.

Incidentally, I also played the game beyond level 7, the screenshots were merely taken in the early stages of play.

Nice honest review there, pity you are clearly rubish to have a farmer kill you !

cragtek, you made it sound as if you lost XP, when in reality you hadnt. Sorry you didnt like corpse run... perhaps having a real death penalty is to much for those with WOW mentality. How did you find the controls clumsy? They are fully configurable, you can play in first and third person perspectives and you can set mouse sensitivity. There are issues in the game but this is not one I've heard anyone gripe about. One thing you forget too.. this is an MMO, it's a social game. If your looking to eliminate your boredom why dont you take up knitting, you're sure to be safe from farmer ghosts.

having a death penalty has nothing to do with a 'wow mentality' does it. If you like sitting there regaining XP that you've already earnt then more fool you. Why should you lose XP because you died in some way, that's just going back to the early days of MMO's with the boredom of long corpse runs and downtime while you rest and gain back your health etc. MMO's should be fun and social. You shouldn't be punished in huge ways like that. I'm guessing with your view you still support the old MMO's where if your armor was destroyed you had to chuck it away and buy new stuff instead of being able to repair it to a useable state. I've not played this game but the ideas in it sound dated.

midnight. when you die in VG you have three options. You can return to the nearest spawn point. or you can get rezed on the spot by a party member. (given you have one that can) The spawn point is usually pretty close to your corpse. While at the spawn point you can either recall your equipment and take a bigger xp hit or you can run back to your corpse and take a very small one. Your equipment does degrade as you use it but the cost to repair it is very small.. a couple copper per piece. You never have to "chuck " your armor. Getting killed should carry some penalty, it makes you think about getting into bad situations. making bad decisions in real life carries penalties. As to "down time", there really isnt any other than the minute it might take you to run back. See, by reading this review and comments you have ideas about the game that just arent true. The game does have flaws, but many of them stated by the author don't exsist. By biggest gripes about the game... Chunking is somet

I'm not going to get involved in a flame war here.

The facts have been stated and are corroborated by other reviewers out there in the big, bad world.

The death penalties are excessive for the average gamer. The control system (and by implication the camera control system too) is clunky and never quite feels right. Although I do concede that you can alter these settings, it's not an ideal default setup and some gamers just won't venture into those options.

I stand completely by my review - and having since read others feel all the better for it.

I am just intrested but do you happen to work for the people behind Vangaurd metatron66 ?

Although many, many people dislike this game, and are well within their rights to dislike it(as there is much to dislike), I get dismayed by reviewers who obviously hardly played the game and post misinformation along with it.

*Control System: How is this game in any way more clumsy or difficult to control than your 'benchmark' WoW, or any other MMO? I think the control system in intuitive, builds on the good things of previous MMO's - and frankly I've never had an issue, and rarely thought "gee I wish it had what <insert mmo> had". 2 kinds of 1st person view and highly customisable 3rd person should satisfy everyone. High ease of use without it feeling lacking.

*There are TONNES of solo quests and a lot of solo content - in fact many people have soloed up to 50. Of course most of the "good reward' quests require groups - as they should, and almost all dungeons require groups (or at least 2-3 ppl), but I have done quite a lot of solo quests/content, even in the 30's. Why pl

My gripe was not with the number of quests, but their individuality. New content, as opposed to replicated - or partially replicated - content.

A lot of people coming on here with just one post to their names... ;-)

And I played the game plenty! Too much, if I'm honest.

Strange that people could hate a game so much, but be so enraged by a review dismissive of it that they would register on here and have their say.

I've said my piece. Argue away.

I got cut short. Yes I'm a 1 poster due to this being an actual review, as opposed to general comments/forum.
My gripe is people comparing every MMO to WoW as if that is the bible of how an MMO should be made, especially reviewers-objectivity anyone? This reviewer obviously hardly played the game, exaggerated deficiencies and wrote falseties (obviously quoting other sources) - and probably never put more than a few hours into the game (as is evidenced by the review, esp the comment 'lack of actual things to do'). Most MMO's need 50-75hours+ for a review.
The game is not "outrageously difficult", HAS a lot of solo content, HAS a very good control system, HAS a decent community (at least where I've played), has a bit harsher but not dreadful death penalty (that actually teaches people to be careful and play properly or else there are consequences - this is GOOD for an mmo, but not for a single player game).
I like Vanguard, even WITH its major problems, and want it to succeed

nobody is going to spend 50-75 hours playing a game in order to review it. Not even gamespot/IGN.

We demand people either finish a game or play at least 15 hours. I am however sure Craig played Much more than 15 hours, that's enough to give an opinion. At the end of the day, that's all a review is.

but this sort of review would discourage *anyone* from playing the game - If I'd read these and similar reviews before picking up Vanguard I probably would never have played.
Lots of reviews compare it to WoW, find that it doesn't have the immediate playability and ease/polish of WOW - and stop - which is a shame as vanguard actually gets better when you leave the newbie areas.
Vanguard, even with its huge problems, has given me more of a sense of being/belonging in a virtual world than WoW ever did or could - moreso than any game since EverQuest ('cept perhaps EVE online, a dompletely diff game).
It would be nice if reviewers could look at this game from a non-WoW perspective for once. Vanguard was never intended to 'catch-up' to WoW, as this reviwer stated at the end of his review, Vanguard was created more as a spiritual successor to EverQuest.

I see your point, but a game does have to be at least accessible to beginners.

Not that I'm qualified to comment on MMO's as I can't/won't play them

My comments were not meant to flame. I offered a different opinion with information to back up my thoughts. I've played the game since open beta, and it has gone though so many improvements. People who flame merely give negative remarks and offer no information to back up their assertions. Also Cragtek, your review should stand on its own merits and should not need to jive with other select reviews. Because a bunch of people believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't make it true. Here are some facts concerning the game now.
1. Death penalty XP hits have been substantially lessened.
2. Game performance is improved considerably. Many people in my guild including myself play on medium setting or higher with modest machines.
3. There are hundreds of quests, many of which are interesting and contribute to the story.
The bad:
4. There are many begining areas. Each is different. Most lead a new player quite well.
1.Chunking (zoning) is still problematic at times.
2. A few of the

apologies for keeping cutting you off, I need to get some damn javascript on there so people know the limit

Cragtek: "A lot of people coming on here with just one post to their names... ;-)"
Well if you must know I saw the link to your post on Blue's News. I had never been here before. But if you have a problem with a new poster coming here. Then I, and anyone else that is new and would like to post might just not come back. I'm sure the owners and advertisers would find that amusing. ;-)

Indeed, much rather have the discussion than anyone not coming back, reviews are always meant to elicit comment and not necessarily controversy. They are just opinion after all.

Indeed, everyone has differing opinions, thank god. And I'm happy to leave yours on here for everyone to read.

Lets be honest though, you're all wrong until Stan plays it and gives his opinion!

I need to have played it to give a opinion and be right ? ?

You dont even have to know what it is to be right ryan

MMORPG are very personal experiences, and as such to get any form of balanced opinion about one would require a team of at least five reviewers.

Any game that requires social interaction to such an overwhelming degree as an MMO will be one that can create great experiences and crap ones. It's entirely possible to enjoy an average game if the community is fantastic (like early counterstrike), however even good games will be pulled short if the social side leaves a sour taste (like most XB360 games).

Anyway, long and short of it seems that this is a try before you buy game.

Ok, i dont know bout you guys but the game looks pretty good. World of war craft was good but the fact that you have to pay to play it totally ruins it...same with lord of the rings online which was totally amazing.
when someone reads this can he asnswer my question before i like blow my head off???
DO YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY THIS GAME AFTER YOU BUY IT???
thx

as far as I know, you do have to pay yes.